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	<title>Comments for Paul and Kaelin</title>
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	<description>&#34;Two are better than one because they have a good return for their labor. For if either of them falls, the one will lift up his companion.&#34; - Ecc 4:9-10</description>
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		<title>Comment on Glenn Beck is not a prophet by Are Mormons Christians? What does this have to do with politics? &#124; Paul and Kaelin</title>
		<link>http://paulandkaelin.com/2011/11/glenn-beck-is-not-a-prophet/comment-page-1/#comment-19032</link>
		<dc:creator>Are Mormons Christians? What does this have to do with politics? &#124; Paul and Kaelin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 May 2012 15:57:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://paulandkaelin.com/?p=2202#comment-19032</guid>
		<description>[...] }());     I&#8217;ve been hearing this question more, especially since Glenn Beck became popular (who is Mormon). I&#8217;m a little confused by this question, here&#8217;s [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] }());     I&#8217;ve been hearing this question more, especially since Glenn Beck became popular (who is Mormon). I&#8217;m a little confused by this question, here&#8217;s [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on We should be talkin&#8217; &#8217;bout the Lord! by How to see children, relatives, friends, and coworkers come to know the Lord &#124; Paul and Kaelin</title>
		<link>http://paulandkaelin.com/2011/01/we-should-be-talkin-bout-the-lord/comment-page-1/#comment-18731</link>
		<dc:creator>How to see children, relatives, friends, and coworkers come to know the Lord &#124; Paul and Kaelin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Apr 2012 12:31:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://paulandkaelin.com/?p=1904#comment-18731</guid>
		<description>[...] it will show and make His Kingdom seem less valuable. As my 80 year old friend Eunice says: &#8220;we should be talking about the Lord&#8220;. What we talk about reflects what we are actually passionate [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] it will show and make His Kingdom seem less valuable. As my 80 year old friend Eunice says: &#8220;we should be talking about the Lord&#8220;. What we talk about reflects what we are actually passionate [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on Overwhelmed on behalf of those unloved, unwanted, and unable to keep their life. by Paul</title>
		<link>http://paulandkaelin.com/2012/02/overwhelmed-on-behalf-of-those-unloved-unwanted-and-unable-to-keep-their-life/comment-page-1/#comment-16300</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Feb 2012 18:32:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://paulandkaelin.com/?p=2242#comment-16300</guid>
		<description>Thanks Jennie for the very thoughtful post! I am thankful that God has used my efforts to encourage you to Love Him more!

&lt;strong&gt;Praise God that you made the choice to adopt&lt;/strong&gt;! I pray that God greatly blesses you and your husband and your child! May that inspire others to likewise lay down their lives for Jesus, especially for these little ones who are so dear to Him! 

I understand the even greater sacrifice a mother must go through to carry a baby then gift him or her away. I have friends who recently adopted a child. The mother at nearly 40 weeks pregnant took her two young children on a greyhound bus across 6 states in order to birth the baby in a state that made it easier to give the child up for adoption. That is sacrifice! That is a child who is loved, even if the mother cannot keep him! And this is a story that is happening throughout the US as many Christians are (quietly) adopting children.

I am 100% for adoption. I also am hugely for supporting single mothers!!! (the vast majority of abortions are from unmarried women). One of the ministries our ministry team is a part of is: http://www.safe-families.org/.  I agree with you, we need to be radically willing to address the social ills. We as Christians in America are far too in love with the world to make these kind of sacrifices.

Have you watched the 180 movie? I&#039;d appreciate your feedback on that. There&#039;s something there about standing on things that are always wrong. For example: it is always wrong to steal. We can stand firmly on that one. By upholding this principle does this also mean that we are obligated to give to anyone who would otherwise feel compelled to steal - whether out of desperate poverty or out of worldly desire? We all need to be careful what our moral &quot;therefores&quot; are.

Ultimately, I would say that Christians ARE NOT protesting the loss of life loud enough. Over the last 20 years about 10% of our population has been brutally murdered, literally cut to pieces while alive. Are we really protesting loud enough? Are we really?!?! In my experience most Christians are pretty much complacent that such a massive injustice is taking place. We’re just like the Germans who lived in the towns near the concentration camps, watching the smoke billow up from the burning bodies of our former neighbors and yet remaining silent.&lt;strong&gt; If we cared more about abortion we’d also care more about adoption and radically loving hurting families and single-moms.&lt;/strong&gt; You are right, God cares for all of life and so should we.

You are right, I cannot accurately gauge the state of the heart of every woman who gets an abortion. I have talked to many women who have had abortions. I talk regularly with the guy who stands EVERY DAY in front of the aboritorium just two blocks from my house and counsels women. For some women it is an absolute battle and a hard decision. Some women make the choice flippantly. Some are forced into it by fathers and boyfriends. Some are even proud of their choice. &lt;strong&gt;Irrespective of the situation, they are still deciding to choose death over life.&lt;/strong&gt; That&#039;s not love. That&#039;s rejecting the gift. I&#039;m not willing to concede ground there and neither should you.  

Or to put it like they do in the 180 movie: When is it okay to kill a baby? This is not being harsh, this is being honest. When life is on the line there is no need to dance around the issue. We must call a sin a sin to give our society and give these women a chance to repent and realize the true joy God has for them in Jesus Christ!

Jennie, again thank you for being willing to step down such a sacrificial journey of adoption and to love this child who is beloved by God. This reflects God’s own heart!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Jennie for the very thoughtful post! I am thankful that God has used my efforts to encourage you to Love Him more!</p>
<p><strong>Praise God that you made the choice to adopt</strong>! I pray that God greatly blesses you and your husband and your child! May that inspire others to likewise lay down their lives for Jesus, especially for these little ones who are so dear to Him! </p>
<p>I understand the even greater sacrifice a mother must go through to carry a baby then gift him or her away. I have friends who recently adopted a child. The mother at nearly 40 weeks pregnant took her two young children on a greyhound bus across 6 states in order to birth the baby in a state that made it easier to give the child up for adoption. That is sacrifice! That is a child who is loved, even if the mother cannot keep him! And this is a story that is happening throughout the US as many Christians are (quietly) adopting children.</p>
<p>I am 100% for adoption. I also am hugely for supporting single mothers!!! (the vast majority of abortions are from unmarried women). One of the ministries our ministry team is a part of is: <a href="http://www.safe-families.org/" rel="nofollow" onclick="pageTracker._trackPageview('/outgoing/www.safe-families.org/?referer=');">http://www.safe-families.org/</a>.  I agree with you, we need to be radically willing to address the social ills. We as Christians in America are far too in love with the world to make these kind of sacrifices.</p>
<p>Have you watched the 180 movie? I&#8217;d appreciate your feedback on that. There&#8217;s something there about standing on things that are always wrong. For example: it is always wrong to steal. We can stand firmly on that one. By upholding this principle does this also mean that we are obligated to give to anyone who would otherwise feel compelled to steal &#8211; whether out of desperate poverty or out of worldly desire? We all need to be careful what our moral &#8220;therefores&#8221; are.</p>
<p>Ultimately, I would say that Christians ARE NOT protesting the loss of life loud enough. Over the last 20 years about 10% of our population has been brutally murdered, literally cut to pieces while alive. Are we really protesting loud enough? Are we really?!?! In my experience most Christians are pretty much complacent that such a massive injustice is taking place. We’re just like the Germans who lived in the towns near the concentration camps, watching the smoke billow up from the burning bodies of our former neighbors and yet remaining silent.<strong> If we cared more about abortion we’d also care more about adoption and radically loving hurting families and single-moms.</strong> You are right, God cares for all of life and so should we.</p>
<p>You are right, I cannot accurately gauge the state of the heart of every woman who gets an abortion. I have talked to many women who have had abortions. I talk regularly with the guy who stands EVERY DAY in front of the aboritorium just two blocks from my house and counsels women. For some women it is an absolute battle and a hard decision. Some women make the choice flippantly. Some are forced into it by fathers and boyfriends. Some are even proud of their choice. <strong>Irrespective of the situation, they are still deciding to choose death over life.</strong> That&#8217;s not love. That&#8217;s rejecting the gift. I&#8217;m not willing to concede ground there and neither should you.  </p>
<p>Or to put it like they do in the 180 movie: When is it okay to kill a baby? This is not being harsh, this is being honest. When life is on the line there is no need to dance around the issue. We must call a sin a sin to give our society and give these women a chance to repent and realize the true joy God has for them in Jesus Christ!</p>
<p>Jennie, again thank you for being willing to step down such a sacrificial journey of adoption and to love this child who is beloved by God. This reflects God’s own heart!</p>
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		<title>Comment on Overwhelmed on behalf of those unloved, unwanted, and unable to keep their life. by Jennie</title>
		<link>http://paulandkaelin.com/2012/02/overwhelmed-on-behalf-of-those-unloved-unwanted-and-unable-to-keep-their-life/comment-page-1/#comment-16299</link>
		<dc:creator>Jennie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Feb 2012 17:54:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://paulandkaelin.com/?p=2242#comment-16299</guid>
		<description>Hi Paul,

I just want to start this comment by saying I love reading your blog posts. I find I am constantly challenged by your writing to go deeper in my walk with Christ, to avoid falling into the complacency of safe and, ultimately, unsatisfying Christianity. Your love for God and people is so visible in your writing.

Moving on to today’s post, I just wanted to share a few of my thoughts on the issue - 

I find the topic of abortion to be strongly one-sided (on both sides of the issue), but I believe a more holistic view is necessary if there is to be any hope of following Christ’s example for us in this area.

Your post touches on the very real tragedy of innocent children losing their lives before they have even begun to experience it. What I find so frustrating about this view (which is so commonly argued by pro-lifers) is that there is no mention of the crime of innocent children growing up unwanted and unloved. There is no mention of the young girls and women who feel forced into this step because their future has suddenly become wildly uncertain and foggy. I doubt that very few who have an abortion do so simply because they do not ‘want’ the gift of life. This decision is likely the most difficult they will ever make and will haunt them the remainder of their life. 

I found it interesting that you contrasted couples who are unsuccessfully trying to have their own children, to give the gift of life, to others who have been given the &#039;gift&#039; of life and choose to abort. So so many Christians are opposed to abortion, but I see very few who are making space in their lives to deal with the very real problem of the babies which result. Of course, there are many people who adopt, but in comparison to the people loudly protesting abortion, this number is minute. Perhaps some who are struggling to have their own children could find it somewhere in their hearts to become a parent to a child who is struggling to find love in the life he already has.  

(Please do not think I am objecting to families who wish to have their own children. I really really am not - I think it is a wonderful thing to desire and procreation truly is a gift from God. )

We all began as orphans in this sinful world, but we have been taken up by our Father in heaven, adopted into his family as heirs with Christ. Our Father sees us not as adopted orphans, but as his true children. He could not love us more than he already does. Is it not within our power to share this gift? Would it not be a joyful responsibility to give an unwanted child the love of a family?

At the same time that we protest the loss of life, might we not also make clear our intent to step in and share the responsibility of the life which we protected?  If it is truly the gift of life which we as Christians value, we need to recognize that this ‘gift’ does not begin and end with embryos who have been granted the opportunity to draw their first breath. 


*So that it doesn&#039;t sound as if I&#039;m just spouting opinions with no intent to follow my own advice, I just want to mention that my husband and I have made the decision to adopt, in large part because of the huge number of beautiful children who have the misfortune of being born to parents unprepared to give them the life and love they deserve.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Paul,</p>
<p>I just want to start this comment by saying I love reading your blog posts. I find I am constantly challenged by your writing to go deeper in my walk with Christ, to avoid falling into the complacency of safe and, ultimately, unsatisfying Christianity. Your love for God and people is so visible in your writing.</p>
<p>Moving on to today’s post, I just wanted to share a few of my thoughts on the issue &#8211; </p>
<p>I find the topic of abortion to be strongly one-sided (on both sides of the issue), but I believe a more holistic view is necessary if there is to be any hope of following Christ’s example for us in this area.</p>
<p>Your post touches on the very real tragedy of innocent children losing their lives before they have even begun to experience it. What I find so frustrating about this view (which is so commonly argued by pro-lifers) is that there is no mention of the crime of innocent children growing up unwanted and unloved. There is no mention of the young girls and women who feel forced into this step because their future has suddenly become wildly uncertain and foggy. I doubt that very few who have an abortion do so simply because they do not ‘want’ the gift of life. This decision is likely the most difficult they will ever make and will haunt them the remainder of their life. </p>
<p>I found it interesting that you contrasted couples who are unsuccessfully trying to have their own children, to give the gift of life, to others who have been given the &#8216;gift&#8217; of life and choose to abort. So so many Christians are opposed to abortion, but I see very few who are making space in their lives to deal with the very real problem of the babies which result. Of course, there are many people who adopt, but in comparison to the people loudly protesting abortion, this number is minute. Perhaps some who are struggling to have their own children could find it somewhere in their hearts to become a parent to a child who is struggling to find love in the life he already has.  </p>
<p>(Please do not think I am objecting to families who wish to have their own children. I really really am not &#8211; I think it is a wonderful thing to desire and procreation truly is a gift from God. )</p>
<p>We all began as orphans in this sinful world, but we have been taken up by our Father in heaven, adopted into his family as heirs with Christ. Our Father sees us not as adopted orphans, but as his true children. He could not love us more than he already does. Is it not within our power to share this gift? Would it not be a joyful responsibility to give an unwanted child the love of a family?</p>
<p>At the same time that we protest the loss of life, might we not also make clear our intent to step in and share the responsibility of the life which we protected?  If it is truly the gift of life which we as Christians value, we need to recognize that this ‘gift’ does not begin and end with embryos who have been granted the opportunity to draw their first breath. </p>
<p>*So that it doesn&#8217;t sound as if I&#8217;m just spouting opinions with no intent to follow my own advice, I just want to mention that my husband and I have made the decision to adopt, in large part because of the huge number of beautiful children who have the misfortune of being born to parents unprepared to give them the life and love they deserve.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Calling your bluff on your relativism by Eileen</title>
		<link>http://paulandkaelin.com/2012/02/calling-your-bluff-on-your-relativism/comment-page-1/#comment-15820</link>
		<dc:creator>Eileen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Feb 2012 12:24:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://paulandkaelin.com/?p=2234#comment-15820</guid>
		<description>Ravi Zacharius always has such compelling insights, and he radiates such a beautiful kind and loving spirit.  Gregg and I heard him speak at Mariners one time and I could have listened all night.  Thanks for sharing!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ravi Zacharius always has such compelling insights, and he radiates such a beautiful kind and loving spirit.  Gregg and I heard him speak at Mariners one time and I could have listened all night.  Thanks for sharing!</p>
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		<title>Comment on Overpopulation is a Myth by Paul</title>
		<link>http://paulandkaelin.com/2011/10/overpopulation-is-a-myth/comment-page-1/#comment-12816</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Nov 2011 03:43:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://paulandkaelin.com/?p=2190#comment-12816</guid>
		<description>Thanks Karl for the in-depth reply.  I appreciate a good discussion.  Sorry it took a few days to get out a thoughtful response.

We could argue about supposed scientific evidence (for which I would also point you to &lt;a href=&quot;http://paulandkaelin.com/2008/12/overpopulation-threat-or-myth/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;my other post&lt;/a&gt; which contains a lot of research links).  But ultimately the conversation would not go anywhere because it appears we have a completely different foundations (correct me if I&#039;m wrong). 

The problem is not too many people or anything related to that, the problem we&#039;re facing is sin.  The problem is not an external issue we can control such as pollution or animal protection or food supplies.  The problem is an internal heart bent on rebellion toward God and the ways God has created us to live in shalom (peace and harmony with God, one another, and creation).  Sin is why we have poverty.  Sin is why animal species are dying off.  Sin is why we&#039;re overfishing.  Sin is why our planet is so polluted.  We can try to &quot;manage&quot; the consequences of sin all we like, but we will always fail... for proof I&#039;ll point to the entire history of mankind and our ongoing failure to manage our sin.

There&#039;s only one answer to sin:  Jesus Christ.  The Bible tells us that &quot;the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus&quot;.  Sin earns us death.  It creates death in our relationships, death in our health, and even death in our planet.  Sin earns us death under God&#039;s judgement as well, death in this life and eternal death in hell.  But Jesus Christ died for our sins on the cross and rose from the death, thus freeing us from this death so it might no longer have mastery over us.  Jesus Christ came to give us life, both here and eternally.  And Jesus Christ is coming back to remake the earth, bringing all men&#039;s works into the light and judging them based on either their sinful life or - if they have faith in Jesus - on Christ&#039;s perfect life.  In the new heavens and new earth there will be no more death, suffering, crying, mourning, or pain... only joy and love.

God is the author of life and loves life.  He promises to uphold His creation and He commands us to &quot;Be fruitful and multiply&quot;.  I&#039;m going to trust Him at His Word on that and thus I must be a champion for life.  Because sin is the problem and not population, I am willing to &quot;write off&quot; ideas that uphold trying to control sin by limiting people&#039;s right to life.  I am willing to write off Paul Ehrlich, a major evangelist of the overpopulation fears, because his foundations are flawed (beyond his science being based on unproven premises).  Overpopulation has been a fear-based propoganda for years; it was a major staple of the rise of the Nazi eugenics campaigns, which we all know how that went. 

So what do you really believe is the issue behind all this?

As a secular atheist in college (before having my eyes opened to the love of Jesus Christ), I was a proponent of population control.  I&#039;ll ask you the question that someone asked me:  how much do you believe in overpopulation?  Are you willing to get sterilized to prevent being a part of the (supposed) problem?  How strong is your faith in what you declare to be true?

My faith is in Jesus Christ.  And I want to see as many people as possible loving Him and expericing His love.  I&#039;d rather see 25 billion people on this earth struggling to get enough food but with billions going into eternal life than 3 billion self-focused comfortable people who will eventually experience much worse in hell.  Of course, I&#039;d rather see 25 billion well-fed here AND trusting in Christ for eternal life, but often Jesus uses hard circumstances in this life to help us realize that &quot;here we have no lasting city, but we are seeking the city which is to come (in eternity)&quot; (Hebrews 13:14).  This life - &quot;this city&quot; - does not hold our true happiness, satisfaction, and joy.  Living for this life only will only disappoint.  I have faith in a better life... the eternal city.

And Karl, I sure hope I&#039;ll see you in that city!

Thanks again for the dialog Karl!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Karl for the in-depth reply.  I appreciate a good discussion.  Sorry it took a few days to get out a thoughtful response.</p>
<p>We could argue about supposed scientific evidence (for which I would also point you to <a href="http://paulandkaelin.com/2008/12/overpopulation-threat-or-myth/" rel="nofollow">my other post</a> which contains a lot of research links).  But ultimately the conversation would not go anywhere because it appears we have a completely different foundations (correct me if I&#8217;m wrong). </p>
<p>The problem is not too many people or anything related to that, the problem we&#8217;re facing is sin.  The problem is not an external issue we can control such as pollution or animal protection or food supplies.  The problem is an internal heart bent on rebellion toward God and the ways God has created us to live in shalom (peace and harmony with God, one another, and creation).  Sin is why we have poverty.  Sin is why animal species are dying off.  Sin is why we&#8217;re overfishing.  Sin is why our planet is so polluted.  We can try to &#8220;manage&#8221; the consequences of sin all we like, but we will always fail&#8230; for proof I&#8217;ll point to the entire history of mankind and our ongoing failure to manage our sin.</p>
<p>There&#8217;s only one answer to sin:  Jesus Christ.  The Bible tells us that &#8220;the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus&#8221;.  Sin earns us death.  It creates death in our relationships, death in our health, and even death in our planet.  Sin earns us death under God&#8217;s judgement as well, death in this life and eternal death in hell.  But Jesus Christ died for our sins on the cross and rose from the death, thus freeing us from this death so it might no longer have mastery over us.  Jesus Christ came to give us life, both here and eternally.  And Jesus Christ is coming back to remake the earth, bringing all men&#8217;s works into the light and judging them based on either their sinful life or &#8211; if they have faith in Jesus &#8211; on Christ&#8217;s perfect life.  In the new heavens and new earth there will be no more death, suffering, crying, mourning, or pain&#8230; only joy and love.</p>
<p>God is the author of life and loves life.  He promises to uphold His creation and He commands us to &#8220;Be fruitful and multiply&#8221;.  I&#8217;m going to trust Him at His Word on that and thus I must be a champion for life.  Because sin is the problem and not population, I am willing to &#8220;write off&#8221; ideas that uphold trying to control sin by limiting people&#8217;s right to life.  I am willing to write off Paul Ehrlich, a major evangelist of the overpopulation fears, because his foundations are flawed (beyond his science being based on unproven premises).  Overpopulation has been a fear-based propoganda for years; it was a major staple of the rise of the Nazi eugenics campaigns, which we all know how that went. </p>
<p>So what do you really believe is the issue behind all this?</p>
<p>As a secular atheist in college (before having my eyes opened to the love of Jesus Christ), I was a proponent of population control.  I&#8217;ll ask you the question that someone asked me:  how much do you believe in overpopulation?  Are you willing to get sterilized to prevent being a part of the (supposed) problem?  How strong is your faith in what you declare to be true?</p>
<p>My faith is in Jesus Christ.  And I want to see as many people as possible loving Him and expericing His love.  I&#8217;d rather see 25 billion people on this earth struggling to get enough food but with billions going into eternal life than 3 billion self-focused comfortable people who will eventually experience much worse in hell.  Of course, I&#8217;d rather see 25 billion well-fed here AND trusting in Christ for eternal life, but often Jesus uses hard circumstances in this life to help us realize that &#8220;here we have no lasting city, but we are seeking the city which is to come (in eternity)&#8221; (Hebrews 13:14).  This life &#8211; &#8220;this city&#8221; &#8211; does not hold our true happiness, satisfaction, and joy.  Living for this life only will only disappoint.  I have faith in a better life&#8230; the eternal city.</p>
<p>And Karl, I sure hope I&#8217;ll see you in that city!</p>
<p>Thanks again for the dialog Karl!</p>
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		<title>Comment on Overpopulation is a Myth by Karl Bonde</title>
		<link>http://paulandkaelin.com/2011/10/overpopulation-is-a-myth/comment-page-1/#comment-12694</link>
		<dc:creator>Karl Bonde</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Nov 2011 14:48:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://paulandkaelin.com/?p=2190#comment-12694</guid>
		<description>Saying that overpopulation is a myth is as misleading as saying that population is the only thing that matters.

You are right to point out all of the good ways we can become more sustainable - in terms of food, poverty, water, land use, and energy consumption. We certainly can improve our lifestyle in many areas and if we do, we can safely harbor many more humans on this planet - probably closer to 100 Billion.

However, people who talk about overpopulation aren&#039;t just trying to scam you or pull your leg. They are considering something very real - that we are being amazingly unsustainable right now, especially in the Western World. They see that if the status quo continues there are going to be a lot of problems. Thus, they would be willing to sacrifice something themselves for future generations. I would call this type of sacrifice honorable.

The truth is that it&#039;s a balance between population and lifestyle. We could be very good stewards of the earth and ourselves and &#039;easily survive&#039; with tens of billions of people. Likewise, we could also &#039;easily survive&#039; with just one billion - even if we are polluting everywhere all the time (being WAY worse than we are now).

Yet, even if we do reach super-sustainble levels, there still IS an upper limit, for we do live on a finite planet, with finite space. One of the videos on the website suggests that instead we should worry about extinction. Of course, extinction is possible, but there is NO reason to worry about that as we are well above our minimum viable population (MVP) as a species.

Speaking of MVPs and extinction. Animals. Plants. The Earth. With the addition of 5 Billion humans in the past century, all animals everywhere are on the decline. The extinction rate has increased and many animals are left hovering around their MVP. Overfishing has put a giant hit to the number of fish in the ocean. We are constantly building roads through habitat, converting habitat into agriculture. Everything else is suffering, while humans just keep growing.

And you say, well... we can change! We can do better! Yes, you are right, we can. But until we do, we are pushing up against everything, including ourselves. As it stands now 40% of the earth&#039;s land is used for agriculture. By contrast, protected areas make up only 13% of the land. (And we protect just over 1% of the ocean).

And there is something to be said about quality vs. quantity. And about ease. It&#039;s easier to peacefully exist with each other and with other species when we have fewer numbers. It&#039;s easier to find more room if there are 5 Billion of us than if there are 15 Billion of us. It&#039;s easier to have quality interactions when classes sizes are 10 rather than 70. What exactly is wrong with a planet that has a stable population of 3 Billion people? What is wrong with wanting people (and animals) in the future to have quality lives?

I am glad that you know we can change our lifestyle for the better. I know we can too. However, I wish that is what you pushed, what you reminded people in the end. But you end with this &#039;no worries, they don&#039;t know what they&#039;re talking about, just have more babies&#039;. Please don&#039;t write off people and their ideas like this. These ideas originate from a love of the world and of humanity - and from a hope for a world with more quality interactions and less suffering.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Saying that overpopulation is a myth is as misleading as saying that population is the only thing that matters.</p>
<p>You are right to point out all of the good ways we can become more sustainable &#8211; in terms of food, poverty, water, land use, and energy consumption. We certainly can improve our lifestyle in many areas and if we do, we can safely harbor many more humans on this planet &#8211; probably closer to 100 Billion.</p>
<p>However, people who talk about overpopulation aren&#8217;t just trying to scam you or pull your leg. They are considering something very real &#8211; that we are being amazingly unsustainable right now, especially in the Western World. They see that if the status quo continues there are going to be a lot of problems. Thus, they would be willing to sacrifice something themselves for future generations. I would call this type of sacrifice honorable.</p>
<p>The truth is that it&#8217;s a balance between population and lifestyle. We could be very good stewards of the earth and ourselves and &#8216;easily survive&#8217; with tens of billions of people. Likewise, we could also &#8216;easily survive&#8217; with just one billion &#8211; even if we are polluting everywhere all the time (being WAY worse than we are now).</p>
<p>Yet, even if we do reach super-sustainble levels, there still IS an upper limit, for we do live on a finite planet, with finite space. One of the videos on the website suggests that instead we should worry about extinction. Of course, extinction is possible, but there is NO reason to worry about that as we are well above our minimum viable population (MVP) as a species.</p>
<p>Speaking of MVPs and extinction. Animals. Plants. The Earth. With the addition of 5 Billion humans in the past century, all animals everywhere are on the decline. The extinction rate has increased and many animals are left hovering around their MVP. Overfishing has put a giant hit to the number of fish in the ocean. We are constantly building roads through habitat, converting habitat into agriculture. Everything else is suffering, while humans just keep growing.</p>
<p>And you say, well&#8230; we can change! We can do better! Yes, you are right, we can. But until we do, we are pushing up against everything, including ourselves. As it stands now 40% of the earth&#8217;s land is used for agriculture. By contrast, protected areas make up only 13% of the land. (And we protect just over 1% of the ocean).</p>
<p>And there is something to be said about quality vs. quantity. And about ease. It&#8217;s easier to peacefully exist with each other and with other species when we have fewer numbers. It&#8217;s easier to find more room if there are 5 Billion of us than if there are 15 Billion of us. It&#8217;s easier to have quality interactions when classes sizes are 10 rather than 70. What exactly is wrong with a planet that has a stable population of 3 Billion people? What is wrong with wanting people (and animals) in the future to have quality lives?</p>
<p>I am glad that you know we can change our lifestyle for the better. I know we can too. However, I wish that is what you pushed, what you reminded people in the end. But you end with this &#8216;no worries, they don&#8217;t know what they&#8217;re talking about, just have more babies&#8217;. Please don&#8217;t write off people and their ideas like this. These ideas originate from a love of the world and of humanity &#8211; and from a hope for a world with more quality interactions and less suffering.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Should I be storing up canned foods? by Glenn Beck is not a prophet &#124; Paul and Kaelin</title>
		<link>http://paulandkaelin.com/2011/07/should-i-be-storing-up-canned-foods/comment-page-1/#comment-12614</link>
		<dc:creator>Glenn Beck is not a prophet &#124; Paul and Kaelin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Nov 2011 03:53:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://paulandkaelin.com/?p=2080#comment-12614</guid>
		<description>[...] is angry with our government and fearful about our future (I&#8217;ve written previously about how we shouldn&#8217;t fearfully store up canned goods).  But here is the truth:  God is in complete control of absolutely everything, including our [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] is angry with our government and fearful about our future (I&#8217;ve written previously about how we shouldn&#8217;t fearfully store up canned goods).  But here is the truth:  God is in complete control of absolutely everything, including our [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on Don&#8217;t Use God by Glenn Beck is not a prophet &#124; Paul and Kaelin</title>
		<link>http://paulandkaelin.com/2010/09/dont-use-god-obey-god/comment-page-1/#comment-12613</link>
		<dc:creator>Glenn Beck is not a prophet &#124; Paul and Kaelin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Nov 2011 03:42:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://paulandkaelin.com/?p=1587#comment-12613</guid>
		<description>[...]  Glenn Beck (along with many others) uses God as a stepping stool to get what he really wants (I&#8217;ve written previously about using God to get other desires).  Our true heart&#8217;s desire demonstrates what really is our God, and Glenn makes his [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...]  Glenn Beck (along with many others) uses God as a stepping stool to get what he really wants (I&#8217;ve written previously about using God to get other desires).  Our true heart&#8217;s desire demonstrates what really is our God, and Glenn makes his [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on How do I know if God is speaking to me? by What is God&#8217;s will for me? &#124; Paul and Kaelin</title>
		<link>http://paulandkaelin.com/2011/04/how-do-i-know-if-god-is-speaking-to-me/comment-page-1/#comment-12512</link>
		<dc:creator>What is God&#8217;s will for me? &#124; Paul and Kaelin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Oct 2011 15:20:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://paulandkaelin.com/?p=1996#comment-12512</guid>
		<description>[...] the truth:  God is speaking to you.  I&#8217;ve written previously on &#8220;How do I know if God is speaking to me?&#8221; (go read it, its a popular [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] the truth:  God is speaking to you.  I&#8217;ve written previously on &#8220;How do I know if God is speaking to me?&#8221; (go read it, its a popular [...]</p>
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