I ran into two Mormon missionaries in the park. I felt an urge to talk to them, so I got into a great chat.
Now, I do want to say I have a number of great Mormon friends. They are great people and I love them. I am somewhat confused on what they really emphasize in their beliefs, so I took this opportunity to ask.
I talked to two men named Simpson and Stewart. For the sake of brevity, I’ll skip the pleasantries of our conversation and cut out some bunny trails and get to the meat. I know this post looks long, but it reads fast because it is a dialogue. Enjoy!
The 60 Second Elevator Pitch
Me: So, if you were in an elevator and had 60 seconds to talk to someone, then you knew you’d never see them again… what would you tell them?
Stewart: I would tell them about the Book of Mormon and I would tell them about my testimony. I would tell them about how reading the book of Mormon has changed my life and about the joy it brings to me and my family. I would tell them to read the Book of Mormon and pray to God to ask if it is true. It is only in that way can we personally see it as true. (This is the pitch almost all Mormon missionaries lead with)
Simpson: I would tell them about how the Book of Mormon tells us that God rewards those who do righteous things. So if we do what is right, God will bless us and make us prosperous. (Rather than going with the regular pitch, he goes for the prosperity gospel).
Me: What about Jesus, does he have anything to do with this?
Simpson: (Dodges question, starts asking me about my skateboard)
That didn’t work. What about the Death-bed Speech?
Me: So let’s say you are called to someone on their death-bed. You know they have never gone to any kind of church and do not know about God. They don’t have time to read the book of Mormon. You have a short amount of time. What would you tell them?
Stewart: I would point them to (place in the Book of Mormon) that talks about the spirit world. I would tell them that if they did not learn about God here, they will learn about it in the spirit world and have another opportunity.
Simpson: Well, we don’t believe that people who go to other churches don’t go to heaven… (He then went on to say that everyone basically is saved already)
Fleshing out what is Sin
Me: Okay, okay. I’m still a bit confused. Do you know the story of Noah and the flood?
Both: Umm… flood? Noah? (They had never heard about Noah and the flood. Didn’t they at least see Evan Almighty??)
Me: God flooded the earth and killed everyone. Why would God do that?
Stewart: Umm… because they wouldn’t listen? And they were wicked?
Me: Exactly. It says the world was full of violence and that every intention of the thoughts of mans’ heart was only evil. God wiped out everyone because of their sin. Not just big sins, but even little sins. There were probably some perfectly nice people who only told some lies and maybe had an idol in their house but didn’t hurt anyone. They were wiped out too. Why were they killed?
Stewart: Um?
Me: Well it says in the Bible in the Book of Romans that the wages of sin is death. That means when we sin, even little sins like a lie or – as Jesus said – looking at a woman lustfully, then we earn death. We earn death upon death for ourselves. So how do we pay that penalty of death if we only have one life?
Simpson: Spiritual death?
Me: Both. Death entered the world because of sin, but also spiritual death forever because of our sin.
Stewart: Well, do you believe in repentance? If you repent and have faith, then God does not hold your mistakes against you.
What about Jesus?
Me: What about Jesus? How does he fit in with that?
Stewart: Well, we do believe that Jesus was the Son of God. He lived a sinless life and was born of a virgin. He did have to die on the cross, and on the cross he experienced all the pain we feel when we make mistakes. Because of that, the book of Mormon says he is our advocate. He is our mediator to God. We believe that he died for everyone and that we are to accept that gift by faith.
(NOTE the careful choice of words! Mormons will say a lot of evangelical stuff to get you listening, but they will not say that Jesus Christ took the wrath of God for our sins upon Himself on the cross.)
Me: But why did he have to die?
Stewart: That was the plan.
Me: But what about his death makes it important? Why was dying important? Why did he HAVE to die?
Simpson: Well, you see… you won’t find any crosses in our church. We don’t use crosses or pray to crosses. We more emphasize that Jesus is alive today.
What is of First Importance?
Me: Can I show you some scripture. Let’s read 1 Corinthians 15:1-5:
15:1 Now I would remind you, brothers, of the gospel I preached to you, which you received, in which you stand, 2 and by which you are being saved, if you hold fast to the word I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.
3 For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures, 4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures, 5 and that he appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve.
Me: It says that the most important thing is that Christ died for our sins. It says in 2 Corinthians 5 that “he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God”. The MOST IMPORTANT message is that we were helpless in our sin and that the wrath of God was against us, but Jesus Christ took upon Himself the wrath of God and now we are righteous not because of what we do but because of what Jesus did. (I then read them Ephesians 2:1-2 and Ephesians 2:8-10)
Stewart: Yeah…. um. Yeah, we believe that. (said more out of confusion than out of acknowledging what I said.)
Where was the Important Message?
Me: That is great… but why didn’t you say so? You did not talk about that earlier. If it is the thing of first importance, shouldn’t you tell people about it??? If someone is on their deathbed, shouldn’t you tell them that Jesus died for all their sins and they no longer have to worry about death!?!?
Simpson: Well, everyone we talk to are already Christians. They are Lutheran or Catholic. We only share what is different, which is the Book of Mormon. We try to get them to read the Book. They already believe in Jesus, so we don’t talk about that.
Me: So by reading the Book of Mormon they will get that most important message? When I’ve read the Book of Mormon, it does not seem to really focus on the fact that sin is our problem and Jesus is the only answer.
Stewart: It is in there, but like any book it talks about a lot of stuff like chronologies and such.
Me: I think we have a big difference on our hands. See, the Bible says the most important thing is that Jesus made sinners righteous, and that righteousness is a gift, not a result of works. You seem to be talking about doing things to be righteous and not talking about Jesus at all.
Stewart: I’m sorry, but we have an appointment so we have to go… it’s ummm… over that way. Good-bye. (an “appointment” is a very typical excuse I’ve heard)
Simpson: Thanks for talking to us. Thank you for being a good person and doing what you are doing.
Me: Thanks for your time guys! It was fun. But don’t thank me as I’m a sinner, thank Jesus for what He did and is doing.
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This is a segment of a longer conversation. These men – missionaries – did not have a Christian message and knew almost nothing about the Bible. They didn’t even know about Noah and the flood nor about King David and Israel. They preached a self-help message (be a “good” person) which they will get in the Book of Mormon. Are these men saved? I have no idea, only God does. But their message would not save anyone.
(Update 9/14)
I do not ask everyone to give an “elevator” summary of their beliefs. I’m sure that it would be difficult for many of us. But keep in mind these are trained and funded missionaries officially sent by their church. And these two were officially sent to North Central (a Christian university) so that they can try to convert those Christian students. I think it is reasonable to hold them to a bit higher standard in terms of knowing what they believe.
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